President in progress

Dr Andrew Evans CEng FCInstCES PhD, Principal Consultant, Digital Construction Works, and new CICES President talks to Abigail Tomkins   

IT is fitting that the first time I use artificial intelligence transcription software it is for the recording of my interview with Dr Andrew Evans, the new president of CICES. It is a kind of magic. Not only does it understand us, bar a few comedic interpretations, it also automatically picks out key words.

For the hour or so we spent chatting over TEAMS, our top five key words were; survey, people, thought, institution, fun. And while Dr Evans picked a different five to describe himself, these pretty much sum up the man who has become the 33rd president in the institution’s 53-year history.

Andrew Evans, principal consultant at Digital Construction Works, the newish Bentley Systems and Topcon Positioning joint venture, has immersed himself in survey technology all his working life; from research at Nottingham’s renown Institute of Engineering Surveying and Space Geodesy (IESSG), to New Zealand’s HIT Lab NZ, and then Trimble, KOREC and Topcon.

His affinity to CICES has remained throughout. Before he became president this month, Dr Evans held various roles including being a director of SURCO, a member of the Geospatial Engineering Practices Committee and Council of Management, and Deputy Chief Examiner.

He’s a longstanding supporter of the Design Engineer Construct! curriculum, and more recently dedicates a day a week to teaching students on the geospatial engineering apprenticeship scheme at Cronton College, where he finds himself quoting advice from his former lecturer at Newcastle University. Dr Andrew Evans talks to Abigail Tomkins.

Describe yourself in five words

Inquisitive, curious, persistent, team-player, communicative. I have to add that last one because I talk a lot!

What attracted you to surveying?

I grew up in Cambridge and spent a lot of time outdoors with the Scouts. I knew I wanted a job where I didn’t have to wear a tie and be sat behind a desk the whole time, but I never really clicked for a long time that survey was a career.

I went to Newcastle University in 1993 to study surveying and mapping science. The course was brilliant and the rest is history!

Tell us about your career

After graduation I worked for Western Geophysical as a navigator on the 2D seismic survey vessels. While the technology in monitoring and navigation systems was really very cool, ultimately I was just babysitting a computer screen. It didn’t feel right. So I went back to university, this time to Nottingham, and got involved in GNSS and RTK [real time kinematic] baselines. I went on to work with Gethin Roberts on augmented reality (AR) and subsurface visualisation, and then all the academic work paused because my wife and I decided to move to New Zealand.

I got a job with Trimble working in R&D on a funded project with HIT Lab NZ, the human interface technology laboratory. This was around 2003, in the very early days of AR. It was Heath Robinson technology but it was good fun – and we could see the potential of what’s coming of age today.

Eventually, we found New Zealand just too far from friends and family, and we returned to the UK. I had a short stint as a research associate at Glasgow University before deciding I wanted to do survey for real. What I enjoy about surveying is problem solving. You turn up on site and you have to work out how you are going to do that survey; how you’re going to do the control network; what specification you’ll work to. It is a great job!

I became increasingly interested in the technology aspect, and after working for a couple of survey firms, I joined KOREC’s support team. A role then came up with Topcon to bring its upcoming laser scanner to market in 2007. I stayed there until 2019, when I moved to the Topcon JV with Bentley Systems, Digital Construction Works.

Who was the biggest influence on your career?

My dad left school with eight CSEs and ended up as trainee manager in a builder’s merchant. One day he walked past an armed forces recruitment office and popped in for a look. He decided he wanted to join the infantry, and they told him he’d be better off as a plant operator mechanic. He’s always said you have to be open to everything and everyone, and that you can learn something from everybody you speak to. I’ve learned so much from that advice – we’re all works in progress.

Within survey, my time at Newcastle Uni was hugely influential. Both the cohort and the lecturers – David Parker, Ian Newton and Stuart Edwards – ignited my enthusiasm for survey. I remember Geoff Blewitt giving an amazing lecture on geodesy and satellite observation. This guy has a brain the size of a planet and he was talking to a bunch of scruffy students. And Ian Newton’s mantra of ‘level with the legs, centre with the screws’ will stay with me for life. I hear myself telling students the same thing now!

How did the move go from surveyor to technology provider to consultant?

As members of a professional body, we’ve spent a long time getting qualifications and skills, we know we have something of value and we shouldn’t be undercutting each other to get the work.

It’s about trading on expertise and that can be difficult to get your head around. When I worked at KOREC, my expertise was tech support and that is often overlooked. It is seen as a value add, something to help sell the kit.

At DCW, I’ve learned more about the consultancy approach and that we have expertise that is worth paying for. I don’t find it easy and I’m uncomfortable saying ‘I can talk to you about this, but, um, actually, it’s my time and you need to pay for it.’ Having the American outlook where they don’t talk about salary, they talk about compensation, has made it easier for me to get my head around it. I am being compensated for my time. I think British surveyors have been ingrained to offer a service. And if we’re lucky, we’ll be paid for it.

Do we need a shift in mindset from service provider to consultant?

We’re still providing a service, but we need to put a real price on it. It shouldn’t be a bun fight to get the work. We need to get away from the mentality of offering the cheapest deal. Successful survey businesses will tell you what you need, what it will cost and if you need it, you’ll pay for it. Some companies do that very well. Others just do anything they can to get the work. That’s always the case for any industry, but as members of a professional body, we’ve spent a long time getting qualifications and skills, we know we have something of value and we shouldn’t be undercutting each other to get the work.

Has DCW’s consultancy concept worked?

Yes it has, but it hasn’t been easy. We launched the joint venture in October 2019 and here we are two years down the line, up and running after nearly all our pitches and presentations have been via TEAMS. Our only challenge – a big challenge – was not being able to get to site.

The concept of DCW is about creating integrations to improve the workflows from office to the site and back again, it’s that round trip of data. It is putting construction data into the hands that need it at the right time. We’ve got some good stuff on the go with contractors and there’s some exciting integrations coming online now where we are linking the project planning team with machine control and site teams.

What’s been the biggest change to survey technology that you’ve witnessed in your career?

LiDAR and GNSS. The development of GNSS has been immense. And there’s still more to come. Seeing LiDAR now accessible on a phone is totally amazing. I’ll get my knuckles wrapped by the real surveyors in the room when I say I can do surveys on my phone, but I can.

Why did you originally join the institution?

I joined as a student because it was free. When I graduated, I looked at what I wanted to do, and the institution chimed with that. It was as simple as that. And that’s still true now.

You were one of the first CICES members to go for chartered engineer, why did you go for professional registration?

It goes back to something that had stuck in my mind since I was at university. I met a lot of engineers at the time, and they’d be like ‘we’ve done our term of survey, what do you do for the other two-and-a-half years?’ When I read about Ian Cowling [past president] launching the route to chartership, I thought, what have I done since 1993? How have I got to where I am?

I hadn’t really evaluated what I’d done in those 20 years. Going for CEng is something that I would recommend to anybody. It is an exercise in documenting your achievements, and that should be done yearly for personal reflection. It is really useful in terms of confirming what you’ve done and what your skills are and understanding your aims and vision for your career moving forward.

Andy Adores...
Book: The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy
Film: Guardians of the Galaxy. But I did love Dora the Explorer
Music: Don’t get me started! Pretty much anything I hear on BBC Six Music
Sport: Canoe polo. It’s the game of champions
Food: My middle daughter makes an amazing pizza
Place: Anywhere outside with a bunch of mates
Survey kit: My phone!

Now as CICES president, what are your aims?

Promoting our industry expertise wider and further than we have in the past. I heard a speech by the president of ICE [Institution of Civil Engineers], and he mentioned that the industry is getting distracted by tech and that civil engineers needed to get on with the job. My immediate thought was, well, we have the answers that he’s struggling with. We can decipher that tech. And if he doesn’t know where to go to get those answers, then we’ve got a communication and branding issue. We have pride within our membership, but we really need to get that message out around what we bring to the industry. 

You’ve been involved in the BIM white paper, what have you learned from that experience?

There’s a perception that we have two silos of membership – commercial and geospatial – and the two will never cross. That’s utter rubbish. The overlap is huge between the two but we’re not talking properly together. The BIM white paper, digital engineering, whatever we decide to call it is the start of having that conversation. It’s a call to action. 

What will the next white paper look at?

Sustainability. I’m acutely aware that when we talk about sustainability, we don’t necessarily know what the right way to go about it is. I’d like to help shape and push out what the institution is doing for sustainability in the right way, with a pragmatic approach. 

We can’t just say ‘stop emitting carbon’. How is that going to work? Is it even possible? What can surveyors do to make that possible? I’d like to start that research and thinking and hand it over to the next president if I don’t quite finish it off. 

Sustainability and digital transformation are two of the three golden threads of the CICES strategy, how important are they?

Vastly important. As an institution, we need to create a safe space to talk and admit that we may not have the answers, and not be frightened to say that. With EDI [equality, diversity and inclusion] especially, those conversations can be difficult. We have to welcome challenge if we get it wrong. Most people are not intentionally disrespectful to others. The most important thing is that the institution knows we need to understand this and talk about it.

While the golden threads run through everything we do, they are also something we can hang on to. For example, our sustainability policy gives members guidelines they can then relate to their day-to-day work.

Our members don’t necessarily have time to think about these issues and we have people within the institution who do have the time and skills to think about it for them. That’s the value you get from membership.

If you could have one magic fix for construction, what would it be?

National digital twin. That is a massively simple statement for something that’s very, very complex. 

Will we see a fully functioning national digital twin in your working life?

I think so. We’re just starting on the underground stuff. If we can get that out of the door in a few years, then getting the fundamentals of a national digital twin within the next 10 years could be done. Maybe sooner. It might just be a case of connecting up the dots and understanding the legalities of who shares what and how.

Technically, you’ve got to define standards and various other bits and bobs to really make it work. It is a massive task.

There’s a perception that we have two silos of membership – commercial and geospatial – and the two will never cross. That’s utter rubbish. The overlap is huge between the two but we’re not talking properly together. 

What’s been the proudest moment of your career?

Joining the presidential chain at CICES. It is a big thing for me and I’m proud to be given the opportunity to do it. Another highlight was during my time with Topcon, when a
project I’d worked on received an award from the head team in Tokyo. Being allowed to bring my ideas to life, and then be rewarded for it is pretty special.

What’s been the most fun you’ve had at work?

I’ve had a lot of fun with tech launches. When we launched the IP-S mobile mapping system back in 2009, I was part of a very close-knit team who travelled all over Europe. More recently, the launch of the GTL-1000 scanning total station was brilliant. I worked on the early trials with the team in Japan. I also had a lot of fun in 2013 producing a video at Bamburgh Castle, showing all the different technologies that could be thrown together to do what is now known as reality capture, as part of the CyArk 500 project.

What’s been the toughest?

They’re all challenging in their own way. The hardest thing is convincing people to jump or make that bold move with new technology and processes. If you’ve got a workflow that works and you’re able to run a business using it, why would you want to change it because some bloke comes in and tells you that you should? You could use TEAMS before COVID struck, but people still drove the length of the country to meet up. There was a perception that it was technology for technology’s sake. It’s not actually.

My role has always been at the edge, trying to push things a little bit. People don’t always want to see something different and new, they want to get on with their job. Identifying the people who you really need to convince is tough, and I still struggle with it! Which is a good thing, because if it was easy, it wouldn’t be fun.

If you could offer a piece of advice to someone starting out in their career, what would it be?

Keep asking questions. And keep looking for the fun. There’s a quote from Jules Renard on the sleeve notes of The Cure’s Disintegration album around looking for the ridiculous in everything and you’ll find it. That’s what I would say to anybody starting out in any job. Finding the ridiculous makes it fun, and then you can start asking questions as to why it is ridiculous.

What do you like to do away from work?

I like to go off on my bike or in my kayak. The most relaxing thing I can do is to pop down to the river, get in the kayak and go for a paddle. And then come home to my wife and three daughters and work out what we can do for fun.

Dr Andrew Evans CEng FCInstCES PhD, Principal Consultant,
Digital Construction Works, was talking to Abigail Tomkins
president@cices.org
@rooevans
www.linkedin.com/in/andrewjohnevans/